Seconds From Nuclear War: How Vasily Arkhipov Saved the World

In October 1962, at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, the world edged closer to the brink of total annihilation than ever before or since. ​In this episode, we explore the heroism of Vasily Arkhipov, the Soviet naval officer who stood alone against his peers to prevent a global nuclear catastrophe.

Join us as we dissect this pivotal moment in Soviet naval history and reflect on how close we came to the end of the world.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Honourable Menchansky Honorable Mentions.

SPEAKER_05 1:38

Hello, listener. How are you? Welcome to today's episode where we delve deep into what could have been the end of the world. And you're thinking, well it might as well be the end of the world without him here. Well let's see if we can get him, shall we? The Prince of Podcasts himself, Mr Rasmataz, the conjurer of the quiche. Let's see if we can get him down from his ivory tower, listener. All together now.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Hello, Neil. Stop it. That's enough autographs. No, no more. Hundred and fifty's enough. Hello, Steve, how are you?

SPEAKER_05 2:17

Hello, Neil. You're being bothered by your fans.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah, it's a all at the door now.

SPEAKER_05 2:22

Can I just start today's podcast, Neil? Hello, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Hello, Stephen.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania. Old Miss John Glenn Liston Beats Patterson. Pope Paul Malcolm X, British politician sex, JFK blown away. What else do I have to say?

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Alright, Billy. Um I don't know. Tell me what else you have to say.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

Oh, where's that from, please?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

That's Billy Joel, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 2:50

We didn't start the fire.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 2:52

Do you like that song?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

It's alright.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Yeah, it is it's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

It's alright. It's alright. It's one of them ones if you can't sing along to it, you get bored.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

It's very middle of the road. Anyway, Neil, the reason I opened today's podcast with that beautiful rendition is who would you say is the singularly most important person in post-second world war history? JFK, MLK, Mandela, Neil Armstrong, who is of course you named after you. Elvis Princess Diana? Bob Geldoff. Where would you go? Bob Geldoff? Really? I don't know. I'm just missing out names here. Where would you go?

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Goodness be yours, you million jack crevice. I would say most important person, apart from obviously myself, the most important person post-20th century. Post Second World War, you didn't say that, did you? Did. I didn't. Prove it.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

Oh, I've rewind the tape. You ready?

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:55

Post Second World War. Oh, I did say it, there it is.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Right, yeah. So the most important person I would say, apart from myself, I'm gonna go with Queen Elizabeth II.

SPEAKER_05 4:05

Oh that's an interesting one. Why would you say that?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Because of uh what she did with the within the Commonwealth.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

Which was.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Oh okay. Well not that then. Um I should say Rowan Atkinson.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

Mr. Bean?

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:22

Black Adder.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

And why are you saying that, please?

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Because he's funny.

SPEAKER_05 4:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Make me laugh, they're important.

SPEAKER_05 4:30

You're not gonna say Vasily Alexandrovich Arkupov.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

You can't either.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Vasily Alexandrovitch Arkupov. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Vasily uh whatever your name is. I don't know, because I don't know who he is, please.

SPEAKER_05 4:46

I'm gonna say he is the singularly most important person in post-second world war history.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Really? You obviously just said it, so you can say it because you did say it.

SPEAKER_05 4:57

I can say it and I did say it, didn't I? I stuck the neck right out there. And you say that post means afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Yes, not imagine sticking something through your door.

SPEAKER_05 5:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Or or the male, as they would say in America.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

Vasily, who it what it is I'm talking about, was born on the 30th of January 1926. 1926. Just before half past seven.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

So if he was alive today, he'd be a hundred.

SPEAKER_05 5:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

See, I did that.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

I did. You used what we call the mathematics.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yes. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_05 5:35

He was born into a peasant family in the town of Strayakup Avna.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Oh yeah, it's this nice place that. Streakar. See?

SPEAKER_05 5:46

And that's Russian foe.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

What your village name is.

SPEAKER_05 5:50

Oh. There they go, that's why I keep you around. It's 23 kilometres or 14 miles east of Moscow, or Moscow.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Moscow.

SPEAKER_05 6:01

Moscow, if you're an American. By all accounts, he was a bright kid, despite his impoverished background, and was educated in the Pacific Higher Naval School, and went on to participate in the Soviet Japanese war of August 1945, serving aboard a minesweeper.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 6:25

Yes. Anything that was belonged to them, they went to sweat.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

When you go around after the concert's been on, you can pick up some coins or a fair's been round, you think, that's mine, there's a pound.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

Oh you're ready, you're ready for this. You're ready for the clang. When I watched the Sydney Swans versus the great Western Sydney Giants in the Sydney cricket ground in Australia. I left my sungbuses behind and they were prescription sungbuses as well. I left them in and when I phoned them up afterwards they said they hadn't found them and no one handed them in.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Alright.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

That's just a little tale of things being left behind that a minesweeper would have picked up on. What do you know about the Soviet Japanese war now, please?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Uh it was between Russia and Japan.

SPEAKER_05 7:16

Well it wasn't, was it?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 7:19

It nearly was. But it's the Soviet Japanese War, so it would have been between Japan.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

And the Soviet Union.

SPEAKER_05 7:27

Oh done. Yes. So Russia is what we currently would call Russia, but the Soviet Union, of course, encompassed, if I can use that word. Encompassed lots of other modern day countries. The war was a brief campaign during World War Two. The USSR, who are the Soviets, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, declared war on Japan on August the eighth, nineteen forty-five, two days after the American bombing of Hiroshima.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Hiroshima.

SPEAKER_05 8:02

Hiroshima. Yorad. Not you. I don't mean well, we know your ad, but I mean the Russians, of course. Because they declared war on Japan, didn't they? Two days after the Americans dropped a nuclear bomb on them. So after they've been decimated and left with a rubble strewn wasteland, the Russians thought, come on, come on, let's have a fight now. I wonder why the Russians didn't invade Northampton, if that's what they were looking for.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Yeah. Perhaps it's too dangerous. Perhaps they might have done some improvements.

SPEAKER_05 8:35

If all yeah if all they wanted was a rubble-strewn wasteland, they could have dropped a nuclear bomb on Northampton and cost £15 million worth of improvements. On August the 9th, over 1.5 million Soviet troops launched a massive invasion on Japanese territories. Japanese territories. The speed and success of the offensive, along with the atomic bombings, which were carried out by the Americans, of course.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah. Hanola Gay. Hanola Gay. Hanola Gay.

SPEAKER_05 9:11

Yes. That's a song by Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dart.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

That was the name of the plane, wasn't it? That dropped the first bomb.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

Yes. The speed and success of the offensive, along with the atomic bombings, were decisive factors in Japan's decision to surrender on August 15th, 1945, effectively ending the war. After the war, Vasili transferred to the Caspian Higher Naval School, graduating in 1947 to serve in the submarine service aboard ships in the Black Sea, Northern and Baltic fleets.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

That'd be difficult in the Black Sea, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_05 9:51

Yeah, the visibility would be quite low, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:53

Terrible. You'd be better off going into the clear sea. He was known to be shy and a humble man.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Uh so much.

SPEAKER_05 10:04

Although he was the archetypal, dark and handsome, a bit like me. So it's got to be a both of us in there, with a Hollywood square jaw and James Bond looks.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Which James Bond. I beg your pardon. Which James Bond? They all look different. They all different different. For instance, Daniel Craig was blonde haired and a big pouty mouth, and Sean Connery was dark hair with dark eyes. And Scottish. And Scottish. But they were all different people. Famous Swedish lovingly at the active.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

That's very good. James Bondby as well. He married Olga, this is facilly, not Sean Connery, in 1952.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

And they remained together until his death.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

So you've already observed, you already observed, Neil, that he would be 100 if he was still alive today.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yes, and he he obviously isn't.

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about them staying together until his death. He must have had his death. So which I take to mean that he's died.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah. Yeah, we've got proof of that.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

We'll find out as we go on, shall we?

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

In nineteen sixty-one. So at the age of thirty-five, Vasily was made deputy commander of a brand new ballistic missile submarine, the K-19.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

So it's just a commander of one submarine?

SPEAKER_05 11:34

I imagine being the commander of a brand new ballistic missile submarine was quite a responsible job. Do you think? I think so, because it was among the first of a hotel class of Soviet submarines armed with nuclear weapons.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Wow, jigging me.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

What's that you say, Neil? What's hotel class? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 11:56

What's hotel class, please? What does that mean? I didn't really want to say it, but you just made me. Hotel class, Neil.

SPEAKER_05 12:02

That's a good question. I'm glad you asked it. Hotel class was a NATO name given to submarines unique to the Soviet Navy that were powered by twin nuclear reactors and capable of firing missiles. It's all in the Navy.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

A the nuclear submarine.

SPEAKER_05 12:24

Well, when's the last time you stayed in a hotel that wasn't powered by twin nuclear reactors and capable of firing missiles?

SPEAKER_02 12:32

I remember.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

No, they all do it. So hotel's the obvious name, I'd have said. Hotel Plus doesn't sound so bad though, does it?

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Apart from the shooty the shooty bits. Apart from the shooty bits, but then you wouldn't get a complimentary breakfast, or would you? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

That's probably why it was called hotel as well. You probably did get a complimentary breakfast.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yeah. And it's continental or English.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

Free parking.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah, so there's parking and free wifi. That's probably what it was, it was the Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_05 12:58

Uh I digress.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

I'm not gonna ask which colour, because it'll be purple.

SPEAKER_05 13:05

Will it?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:07

No, I'm not gonna go purple Neil.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

I was trying to use a mind trick on you.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

I'm going to go a battleship grey colour in line with our naval theme.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:20

Battleship grey cris.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 13:24

Thank you. Any questions? Or shall we carry on?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Uh myth. No, I've got nothing. I've got nothing.

SPEAKER_05 13:31

There Vasily was, Neil. Hello, Neil.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Hello.

SPEAKER_05 13:36

All deputy commanding of this K-19 with its reactors and missiles went during some regular training exercises off the coast of Greenland. That place causes more trouble than it's worth, don't it?

SPEAKER_02 13:50

It does, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_05 13:51

The sub's reactor coolant system sprung a leak.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Oh no. Nothing worse than that under the sea, surely.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

And you don't want that, not a leak, or any onion-based vegetables. No sea, I wouldn't have thought. That would, wouldn't it? The leak effectively stopped the whole nuclear calling system on the sub. That's a very naughty leak. Yeah. The radio links with command in Moscow, Moscow, were also affected, preventing the crew from calling for help. Uh that's Russian, is it?

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 14:28

For help. Okay, thank you. You have to remember to translate, because uh listener probably doesn't speak Russian like you do.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

I don't speak Russian.

SPEAKER_05 14:36

So I won't know what you're what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

That's Russian. Oh that's it again, what's That's that's uh f that's fine, carry on.

SPEAKER_05 14:43

Thank you. Captain Nikolai Zaityev.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Oh, I'm Nikolai, that's a proper Russian name, innit?

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Ordered the submarine seven engineers to find a way of avoiding a nuclear meltdown and be sharpish about it. I think you did actually.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

I would have thought they said it that casually. Be sharpish about it.

SPEAKER_05 15:05

How would that sound in Russian?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

I would say stop that ligski.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

However, solving the problem meant exposing themselves.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Well there's other ways of doing it, surely, don't you? Just stop the old fella around, there you sorry.

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Solving the problem meant exposing themselves to high radiation levels for that period. That's what I'm saying. I know. Yeah. That's what the captain told them.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Don't worry, I'll mend it. Plop. What the hell are you doing, man?

SPEAKER_05 15:35

Captain Nikolai Zatev. That's what he said to them. Hey boy, did you mind mending leak but you could have to expose yourselves? Woohoo.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

You sound really quite uh comfortable speaking like that, Steve. That's a bit weird.

SPEAKER_05 15:49

That's my kneel impression.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Is it?

SPEAKER_05 15:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

There's obviously a different kneel.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

I didn't say which kneel, did I?

SPEAKER_02 15:55

No. Neil tenant.

SPEAKER_05 15:57

So there they were, seven engineers, told to find a way of avoiding nuclear meltdown, pretty sharpish.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

With the willies hanging out. Well just that seeing what I'm saying it could not just assume that all the engineers were men.

SPEAKER_05 16:09

Well it's high to the Cold War in the Soviet Union. I think we are pretty safe to assume that they were all they're all your lads. I think. I'm gonna go with it. If anyone can correct me, then I'm I am not proud. I'm more than willing to uh apologize. Vasily, do you remember Vasily?

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 16:27

He said I've got his clothes on. He played an important role in preventing a potential mutiny by supporting the captain's actions and ensuring the crew's safe evacuation from the area.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

How do you evacuate a submarine?

SPEAKER_05 16:41

Well, you move them away from that bit into another steel. The engineers, you know, you'll be pleased to know.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:52

Managed to devise a secondary coolant system and prevent a reactor meltdown.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Ice cubes.

SPEAKER_05 16:59

Do they get a round of applause? I think they deserve one.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

I think they do.

SPEAKER_05 17:09

But everyone, including Vasily, had been significantly exposed to radiation.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

And we know from one of our former podcasts that somebody had radiation and this jaw dropped off.

SPEAKER_05 17:21

In fact, Neil, within a month of the incident, all seven engineers and their divisional officer had died of radiation exposure.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

And over the next two years, fifteen more submariners aboard that submarine died from the after effects. So it was no godam picnic down there.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Oh, it wasn't, was it? Goddamn.

SPEAKER_05 17:50

The K-19 gained the nickname Hiro Hiroshima or Hiroshima, if you're speaking your correct Japanese, in reference to a long-lasting destructive legacy.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:03

They know how to enjoy a laugh, those Soviets do.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

They do, don't they? Yeah. But the long winter evenings must fly by in that place.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

And they're like, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

That was it.

SPEAKER_05 18:20

Why would they laugh? Because what did that mushroom say?

SPEAKER_02 18:23

The the Americans, hey.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

Oh yeah. That was it. Now, Neil. Neil.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Hello.

SPEAKER_05 18:34

What if I told you all I have said just now, everything I've said before, what I'm saying now at this point here now. Everything was just something to whet your appetite for the main event.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

I like a wet appetite.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

An extraordinary story, which is what I'm going to say about now.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Okay. Then let me hold you up.

SPEAKER_05 18:57

What do you know about the Cuban Missile Crisis, please, Neil? Go.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Nothing.

SPEAKER_05 19:01

I was just going to drink my water then. I was hoping you could tell me about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Right, the Cuban Missile Crisis was a missile crisis that happened around Cuba.

SPEAKER_05 19:14

Thank you. The Cuban Missile Crisis was a thirteen-day confrontation in October 1962 between the USA and the Soviet Union, erswell the USSR.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Right.

SPEAKER_05 19:30

Where were you, please, Neil? What's your alibi?

SPEAKER_02 19:33

1962. Yeah. Was in born.

SPEAKER_05 19:36

After a US spy plane spotted Soviet nuclear missile sites in Cuba.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

President Kennedy. You heard of him?

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Uh he's the one who got shot.

SPEAKER_05 19:49

Imposed a naval blockade to prevent more missiles from arriving, and the crisis only ended when the Soviets agreed to remove the missiles in exchange for an American promise not to invade Cuba.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

So he stuck a plaster over his belly button, that'll do it, it a naval blockade. Is that where you're coming from there, Neil? Yeah, so I was got that's what I'm getting from it anyway.

SPEAKER_05 20:12

Okay. Neither side has been applying elastoplasts to their belly buttons. A naval blockade means that naval ships because in navies they have ships. Right. And those naval ships have been blockading certain areas. In this case here, blockading Cuba, so that other missiles could not be bought into Cuba, you see. Do you see?

SPEAKER_02 20:37

I see now, yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 20:38

That's where their plans were.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Alright, okay, okay. I wonder what they kept saying, there was naval blockades, and I kept thinking, hmm, is that something you can get from Amazon?

SPEAKER_05 20:47

And also th they definitely weren't just very big cigars because the Soviets agreed to remove the missiles. So they were they were fessing up at that point, weren't they?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

So shall we carry on is that all? Yes, that's I think I've got there now, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 21:03

On the twenty-seventh of October nineteen sixty-two, at the height of the crisis.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Right, was that on top of a mountain or something?

SPEAKER_05 21:12

No, this is yeah, again, you're being very literal here now. At the height of the crisis means as the crisis itself was percuating along quite nicely and it's just getting to a rolling boil.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

So it's a height. How do I know it's the height of the crisis?

SPEAKER_05 21:28

Well they didn't at the time, we do now looking back.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Oh, okay. I'm about to say, come on, as we've got ten minutes and we're at the top, then we can start winding it down.

SPEAKER_05 21:36

Yeah, see, yeah, that would be useful, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

It's like the Second World War and things like that, you see, we didn't know when we started going into it that we were actually going to win that.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

No, and they didn't know it finished in nineteen forty five, but perhaps if they knew that, they could sort of take a more relaxed attitude towards it.

SPEAKER_05 21:55

Yeah. It'd probably be fairer to tell them at the start, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

Right, we'll r make a note.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Please.

SPEAKER_05 22:02

Yeah, we'll write that down. On the twenty seventh of October nineteen sixty two, during the height of the crisis, are you happy now with my frame? Vasily Arkupov was flotilla commander on the diesel powered nuclear armed B fifty nine submarine near Cuba.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

A flotilla.

SPEAKER_05 22:25

Yes, it flat so now you we said earlier, didn't we, that he was in charge of a single nuclear submarine. And we said that's that's a responsible job, we said. Criven, that's a responsible job. He's got there. Now he's in charge of a flotilla, so more than one submarine.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Is that what it means?

SPEAKER_05 22:43

Yeah, flotilla of submarines. Don't know why they call it a flow tiller, they should call it a sunk tiller.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

How m how many's in a flotilla, please?

SPEAKER_05 22:52

I don't know, I don't think it matters.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Okay, is it more than one then? A plural submarines.

SPEAKER_05 22:57

Yeah, plural submarines, submarine.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

That's it, I'll do.

SPEAKER_05 23:01

So days before the 7th of October 1962. President John F. Kennedy.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

John F. Kennedy.

SPEAKER_05 23:09

Do you remember our episode on Caroline Kennedy?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_05 23:13

Which is actually our most popular episode. Thank you, listener. He was the father of Caroline Kennedy. Right. So John F. Kennedy threatened red ships encroaching on Kuba with search or sinking. By red ships, Neil, we don't mean they were painted red. We mean he was referring to the red ships belonging to the the Commos, the Reds, the Soviets, the Ruskies.

unknown 23:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

So there was a one there was a one called October.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

A red October? That'd be ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Well, it's a Russian submarine.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

Yes, they have more than one.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Oh, okay. Anyway, high tie crests, and mine's gonna be purple.

SPEAKER_05 23:57

You were going for purple crests. Yeah. What that flash awfully with the red ships of the storm is see if you drop it, you'll be able to find it. Your purple crest. Okay. And now a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers and the aircraft carrier USS Randolph had spotted the B-59, which was one of four submarines secretly sent by the USSR. So Kennedy had said, Don't you dare.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

I should coco, you boys.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

We'll search for you, and if we find ya, we'll sink you.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Yeah, we'll give you a very strong letter.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

Yes. Or tuck in your direction.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

And now a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers had spotted their ship, the B-59. Mainly because they were using purple crests in their sandwiches. I should imagine.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Right. Well they're singing the love shack.

SPEAKER_05 24:54

Though the B-52s, that one was a bit late.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Gotta got the numbers wrong.

SPEAKER_05 24:59

It was delayed the B-52. It got stuck on a rock lobster. But the B-59 was there. And that was heading its way into Cuba.

unknown 25:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Despite being can I just drop a clang? I've been to Cuba.

SPEAKER_05 25:15

Oh sorry. Just saying. Hello, Neil. Hello. Neil. Would you like to tell me, please, have you ever been to Cuba?

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yes, have.

SPEAKER_05 25:24

You have?

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 25:26

And whereabouts did you go, please?

SPEAKER_02 25:28

I don't know. I've got a clue. About two hours from the the main main capital, what we call it.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

Havana.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

That's him.

SPEAKER_05 25:34

Two hours from Havana.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 25:36

Okay, and what did you do there, please?

SPEAKER_02 25:39

I had a holiday, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 25:40

Yes, but what did you do on this holiday?

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Nothing to do with you.

SPEAKER_05 25:43

Despite being International Waters Neil with their purple crest and their very, very well disguised battleship grey crest, which everyone thought was a great idea. The US Navy started dropping practice depth charges which were intended to force the submarine to come to the surface for identification. Instead the B-59 descended.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Mm. I mean it goes downwards, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_05 26:09

The B-59 crew had been picking up US civilian radio broadcasts, but now it was too deep to monitor any radio traffic.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 26:19

They completely lost contact with Moscow Moscow. Yeah. And they had no way to know whether the depth charges being dropped on them were real or not. After a few days of radio silence and constant harassment, the B-59's captain, a man called Valentin Grigorievich Savitsky.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

Do you know him?

SPEAKER_02 26:42

No, I don't know him personally.

SPEAKER_05 26:43

Became convinced that war must have broken out and recommended that they fire a T five nuclear torpedo at the American Naval Fleet.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Ooh, that's a big boy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 27:01

Well, that's gonna do some damage, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 27:05

They drop protect charges and think, let's blow it all out. Why don't they do like the humane things? They do with moles nowadays, you can put things in the garden that make a beat noise. Why can't they drop some of them down there and then the Russians be like, oh that noise is bloody annoying, it's got hell yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:18

Do you know what I mean? I do know what you mean, Neil, but the fatal flaw of your argument there was you just said, like with moles, what they can do nowadays.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:27

This is October of 1962.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Steve, Steve. They've built a nuclear submarine, they've built nuclear bombs, they've put a man on the moon not far away after that. Surely they had an idea of getting rid of moles.

SPEAKER_05 27:40

Where are you going with moles, though? What we're looking at here is not the threat of Americans dropping depth charges on getting rid of moles who might retaliate with a nuclear weapon.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

No, but what I'm saying is they drop depth charges and try to blow the thing up out of the water when they could just put these beepy things down there and the the Russians have been like, Well, poof. I mean this ski. I'm moving on. Threat abandoned, happy days.

SPEAKER_05 28:05

When you're in Cuba, were you over there on a special mission from the government to find out seeking destroy Cuban moles, little burrowing mammals with nuclear capability?

SPEAKER_02 28:20

I can't say anything but yes. Oh, listener. I told ya, Neil Hello, Neil. You can't trust those other buggers, I tell ya.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

Oh, his life is is full of surprises.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 28:33

Anyway, circling back round, square in the circle, giving you a reach around. The political officer, Ivan Semyonovich Maslan Nikov, agreed with Valentin Grigorovich Savitsky. Got some great names, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Yeah, it's like the one with the three testicles, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 28:56

The political officer was responsible for supervising military personnel to maintain loyalty and enthusiasm for the Communist Party's policies. Mm-hmm. So that's who your friend Ivan Semyonovich Maslenikov was. He was the political officer aboard your submarine.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

Typically, a Soviet sub only required authorization from the captain and political officer to fire what they called the special weapon. Hello, would you like to taste my special weapon?

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Boys released a special weapon.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

You sound very comfortable. Neil? Yeah, I am.

SPEAKER_05 29:40

However, Vasily was on board. We've already mentioned this.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yes, he was on board, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_05 29:45

He was officially second in command of the submarine B fifty nine, but was also chief of staff of the entire submarine flotilla.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Right.

SPEAKER_05 29:55

And he outranked Captain Savitsky, and his approval was also required.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:02

Now we've already said we don't know how big the flotilla was, do we?

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

But it was the flotilla and he was in charge of all of them. The air conditioning had stopped working on the B-59, which caused high levels of carbon dioxide. They're in the same situation they were to begin with on the other one. It was like the K-19. The temperature inside the vessel was a steady 37 degrees Celsius.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

Open the window.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

When sailors had been fainting in the stuffy air. I don't open the window. That's a good point. You ought to have been there. All very apt for the heated rail that erupted between the three men.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

That was hot in there, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_05 30:55

I went to the electrical store yesterday and there was a couple in there having an argument about a microwave oven.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

Let me tell you, things got heated pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_05 31:17

We know from witness testimony Witness? Yeah, in Witness in Lancashire. For some reason, people in Witness in Lancashire had a clear view of what was going on inside that submarine.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah, I could see what's going on with every other one.

SPEAKER_05 31:30

In that yeah, looking at submarine. Alright. We know all also from witness testimony, which must have been the people in Witness, yeah, that Vasily was sure that the US tactic was to force the submarine to surface rather than destroy it.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:48

But Savitsky and Maslenikov were convinced they were under attack and needed to retaliate. At the White House, President Kennedy's brother Robert, or Bobby Kennedy Again, also mentioned in our Caroline Kennedy episode. Described how JFK also worried the debt charges would provoke the Soviets into a nuclear strike. Robert said those few minutes were the time of greatest worry to the president.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

I imagine they would be.

SPEAKER_05 32:25

Right up until they uh the cracked from the book depository in D Plaza. Whatever was said between the three men, ultimately Vasily won the argument.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Uh they must have done rock, paper, scissors or something.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

Do you think they did?

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Yeah. Say the way you can solve arguments, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 32:42

If they were Russian and there was three of them, it could have stacked them all inside one another until he was the only one left.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Yeah, could have done that as well, yeah. I wanna go with rock, paper, scissors.

SPEAKER_05 32:54

We just don't know now.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

No.

SPEAKER_05 32:56

Whatever was said between the three men, ultimately Vasidi won the argument. The nuclear missile was not fired.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

They probably wouldn't finish it off with, yeah, well, I put it to you that you're just thinking poo. And that's what won it. And they were like, oh, you got me on that one. One drop.

SPEAKER_05 33:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:13

The B-59 rose to the surface where it was greeted by eleven US destroyers. The Americans did not board or search the sub.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

No, they probably tried to eat it, so it was a sub. Got disappointed there's no meatballs in it.

SPEAKER_05 33:29

Instead, they strafed it with warning shots. Strafed it? Bloody hell. Strafed it. They strafed it with warning shots, and one to three seconds before the start of fire, turned on powerful searchlights that temporarily blinded people on the bridge.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Well, people doing on the bridge. They're watching, I suppose.

SPEAKER_05 33:49

What the bit old Vasily was thinking here when he's convinced his other two officers that it's alright, it's alright. They're not going to get us to be met by eleven destroyers who turn on their blinding lights and then start shooting at you.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Start coming across their bow. Doing what? That's what they said, didn't they? We should come across their bow. Dirty boy.

SPEAKER_05 34:07

I thought they did that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:11

It's disgusting. Wash your mouth out. In fact, the Americans would not know for sure that the submarines had nuclear weapons until half a century later.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Took them a long while to get on board, didn't it?

SPEAKER_05 34:24

Half a century later, Neil, the Soviet archives were opened. One of the destroyers made contact with the B-59 and instructed it to return to the Soviet Union. This wasn't half a century later, because otherwise that was a bit of a waste of time. So what we're saying here is they weren't aware at the time. On your way, gone, shoo.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yeah. We've gone with you, you pesky kids.

SPEAKER_05 34:56

Yes, you impotent fool. Immediately, upon return, many crew members were faced with disgrace from their superiors.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Were they?

SPEAKER_05 35:04

This is the Russians.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

The Americans were out there on a ticket tape parade and everyone go, woo, woo, and you give them high fibes.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yeah. Well, they should do for everything in America. Woo, Dax! Good shooting, man. Yeah. Woo woo, he sneezed. Good man. Woo! Great sneeze.

SPEAKER_05 35:20

Well, you learn to shoot like that at the range. Or at primary schools. When he heard that the Soviet submarines had been located by the US, the acting Soviet defense minister, Marshal Andrei Gretchko, held the drinking glass on the desk in front of him and smashed it into small pieces. Why? Because of his jolly cross.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 35:45

Gretchko was enraged, you see?

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:49

The crew had confirmed their presence.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Oh, that's nice, so they've got something for when they get back.

SPEAKER_05 35:54

No. The crew didn't confirm their presence to him.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

They hadn't been shopping. Duty free and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 36:00

Gretchko was enraged. The crew had confirmed their presence. So what he was enraged with is that the crew of the B-59 had shown him their hands.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Oh, so not to the Americans. They came back with other things, but they didn't get him the big Toblerone that he asked for.

SPEAKER_05 36:14

No.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

Oh, he did get him the big Toblerone that he asked for. So he wasn't enraged for that at all. He was enraged with the fact that they'd given away the their presence and shown the American. Oh Gretchko. I might need your help with this. I was going to act it, but I think uh what I'll do, I'll throw it over to you to to do it in your Russian.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Gretchko said, It would have been better if you'd gone down with your ship, which in Russian is It would have been better if you'd gone down with your ship ski.

SPEAKER_05 36:51

Well, there you go, listener. That really puts you in the picture of what actually happened. Olga, who was Vasily's wife, said that he didn't like talking about it. He felt they hadn't appreciated what they had gone through. While the sailors were met with disgrace from many of their superiors, Vasily continued in service commanding submarines and later whole submarine squadrons.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

The squadrons now. That's got to be more than a f a fruitella, what they are.

SPEAKER_05 37:22

He was promoted to Rear Admiral in 1975 and became head of the Kirov Naval Academy.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 37:32

He retired in the mid-1980s after he had been promoted again to Vice Admiral.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Vice Admiral.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

Sadly, Vasily Arkopov died on the nineteenth of August 1998 at the age of 72. So we already said this at the start that we thought he might have.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

I'm sure he might be dead on it, but yeah, that proves it, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_05 37:54

He had cancer of the kidneys, which is believed, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

To have come from the radiation, let me guess. To have been the consequence of his radiation exposure. See, back then they would have would have had uh someone saying, Have you been injured at work?

SPEAKER_05 38:06

In a press conference in 2002, retired commander Vadim Pavlovich Orloff, who had been aboard the B-59 in 1962, revealed they had indeed been carrying the special weapons and that they were preparing to fire.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Um can I say, just on that point, um you said nineteen sixty-two, and then you said fifth half a century later, which is to me is fifty years, but if this is in two thousand two, that's forty years. And relax.

SPEAKER_05 38:45

Oh yeah, they held nuclear weapons until half a century later. Hmm. You're welcome. Okay. He credited Vasily Arkopov as the reason they were not fired.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:59

Arkopov, he said, had single-handedly stopped a devastating global nuclear war that would have at minimum reduced the USA, Europe and Western Russia to toxic waste latens.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Wow. So that was forty years before then, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_05 39:18

That was in 1962, that would have happened.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

So that's forty years, just working out.

SPEAKER_05 39:23

Anyways, Neil, right, Neil, yeah, Neil. Hello, Neil. Bonjour. Hello, listener. I reckon that the Vasily Arkopov deserves a Honourable Milchonsky. Would you say so, Neil?

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Yes, I would, yes, because he's pretty much saved the whole of the Western world by saying scissors.

SPEAKER_05 39:46

Yes, he did save the whole of the Western world. And he may have saved more than the whole of the Western world. Because we don't know what else would have happened.

unknown 39:56

No.

SPEAKER_05 39:57

Would China have got involved? That's true. We just don't know, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

The retaliation would have been from all around the world, don't know, do we?

SPEAKER_05 40:04

We just don't know, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

No, there'd have been some strong letters flying around, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_05 40:08

Well, thank you, listener, for staying with us to the end of an episode in which we all nearly died. If it wasn't for our very good friend Vasily Arkopov, probably the second most important person in all post-war history, if not pre-war as well. And I say second most important person because we'll end now with the most important person. Hello, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Hello, Stevie Stevie.

SPEAKER_05 40:33

Captain Schaubiz himself.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Yep, Mr. Rasmataz. Sparkly Jacket. The number place.

SPEAKER_05 40:41

What would you like to end this broadcast on, please, for our listener, so they can go about their day with a cheery smile.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

I'm gonna say have a wonderful day. Take life as it comes and enjoy every minute. Beware of ninja pigeons.

SPEAKER_05 40:59

And listener, if you want to contact us for whatever reason, you probably don't, but if you've already still hearing haven't switched off already, you can get us on honourable mentionspod at gmail.com or on social media at Facebook, we're on Reddit, we're on TikTok, we're on your YouTube. So thank you, listener. Be safe, be kind, don't press that button. And we'll be back again next week for Honorable Melchonski.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Bye. Hello, comrade. Do not look at me. Keep your eyes straight ahead. In a moment I will move away from this bench and place the paper wrapping from this delicious meatball stuff into that litter bin. Precisely five minutes after I depart, you will retrieve the paper wrapping and place in your packet. The paper containers.code about the podcast. It must not code in the strong hands and the initiative. It's about the podcast. And the threat to the threat tools. And they use the sign by the side of the road. They will reply to functions. But be careful. Then we may try and activate income. And we should be comfortable. But we shall never meet again. However, I will always remember your role in winning freedom from the capitalists. Goodbye.